1.6 TDi into a Bay

ElusiveStranger · Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 3:48 pm Post subject: 1.6 TDi into a Bay

Just found this guys post on Aussies

http://motorheads.net/vw/turbobus/
_________________
The advice you receive on here is worth the paper it's written on.
Your experiences are worth shed loads to others, including the f'ups - live and learn.
Wouldn't YOU rather learn by someone else's mistakes? So would they.

'78 Bay, 2 litre 091 box, EJ20 NA & the ashtray's on the 'right' side.
I don't lean forward for hills any more Grin

Bugger, missed out on "Live fast, die young"

jp · Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 11:40 am Post subject:

Good find and good site

Why isn't he on here

_________________
1971 Devon Bay with 1800 Ford Turbo Diesel Engine (wip)
1983 VW Golf GTI Campaign
1979 Mini 1275 GT
2013 Scirocco TDI GT

sven · Jedi Guardian Joined: 27 Dec 2006 Posts: 814

That's a great site, tons of info! Happy

ElusiveStranger · Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:40 pm Post subject:

speedy · Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 3:57 am Post subject:

Why thankyah!

I wasn't on here because I didn't know it existed! I didn't know about Aussieveedubbers either until a friend told me. I am first and foremost a member of the type2 mailing list: http://www.type2.com and also the VW GTD forums: http://www.vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewforum.php?f=6

BTW, the title is not quite correct... my engine is not a TDi (I wish) but just an old-school TD. Still, it is not difficult to get 100bhp out of the 1.6TD with a bit more boost and some minor pump mods, or so I'm told.

I haven't made much progress on the bus in the past couple of weeks but tomorrow I'm ordering a new hi-torque starter and thermocouple for the EGT gauge and I ought to get the turbo reinstalled by this weekend. The motor supports are 100% finished and I will be moving on to the exhaust system. I'm going to cut the downpipe off of the donor Passat and start welding.

-David

jp · Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 9:42 am Post subject:

Hi there Speedy Dave Hello

Glad you made it over to us you are most welcome Grin

Interesting to see you've put the rad in the engine bay what sort of climate do you live in ? concerned you may suffer from over heating if you live in a warm climate. Did you consider any other option for Rad location ?

What gearbox will you be running ?

Also notcied you have the small engine hatch (one above engine) and look like you will stuggle to top up the oil in your engine ! can you reverse the rocker to overcome this ?

I see you've had to do away with the firewall as engine is so close to the fuel tank, I am having similar issues with the turbo on my TD fouling the firewall and agree with what you say about diesel not igniting that easy.. though looking at the setup it shouldn't be too hectic to move the engine back a bit have you considered this ? I guess now you've done all the engine craddle you don't really want to mess about moving mounts.

Have to say you've done a top job so far.. keep us posted

Sorry for all the q's Wink

_________________
1971 Devon Bay with 1800 Ford Turbo Diesel Engine (wip)
1983 VW Golf GTI Campaign
1979 Mini 1275 GT
2013 Scirocco TDI GT

speedy · Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 6:03 pm Post subject:

JP - in answer to your questions:

I do live in a very hot climate and I am prepared to have cooling problems because of mounting the rad in the engine compartment. I think it's a matter of proper air flow and I have some ideas for how to achieve it with bigger fans and ducting. My hypothesis is that there was enough air coming through those vents to cool the stock motor so there should be enough to cool this motor also if it is designed correctly. I have considered other mounting options but they all have drawbacks.

Gearbox - for now I am using the stock '73 gearbox with 5.375 final drive and .82 4th gear. I have a '75 gearbox on the shelf with 4.86 final drive and .889 4th gear that I may use with a .82 or even .77 4th swapped in for more acceptable highway RPM in the future.

For adding oil, I looked at reversing the cover but it does not look easy. I may just add through the PCV for the time being but the plan is to obtain another valve cover, cut out the oil filler portion, move it forward to where I can access it through the cover and weld it back in. That way I don't have to worry about messing up the sealing surface.

About moving the engine backwards for firewall clearance, I couldn't think of an easy way to do it because the entire assembly with transaxle, shifter linkage, halfshafts, etc. would all have to move back with it, no? Maybe I should have asked Kennedy to make a thicker spacer and offset the starter ring a bit more... oh well too late now. :-/
I just fit the turbo's oil supply line and it is very close to the fuel tank also. I will probably end up bending down the seam on the tank and bending up the firewall to squeeze in there.

I'm still looking at pictures of your 1.8 Ford conversion... pretty cool! Wish they offered that engine over here in the 'States.

-David

richbaker78 · Teacher of Padawans Joined: 31 Jan 2006 Posts: 1298

welcome - looks like a very interesting project that....please dont take this as a negative but I will be interested to see how that rad goes - its a common problem and one ive spent too long looking at.....a friend of mine ran a smilar set up in his bay with a vw gti engine and unfortunatly it didnt cool very well at all.....he even welded in an extra vent lower down to double the flow.....to no avail

the problem was that the old lawn mower engine drew in air with the fan and expelled it from the sealed engine compartment through the underside of the van in one striaght through process.

working on the basis that air will flow high to low pressure....you will (as you hypothesised) get some airflow through your rad as the vent brings high pressure and the engine compartment will be low presure....but its what happens to the air next thats the problem.....

you need to then expell the now hot air from the enclosed engine compartment to prevent recirculation. VW achieved this by sealing the inware and passing the hot air out underneath with the constantly running fan....unfortunatly you dont have any natural flow left as the engine compartment is low pressure, the area behind the van where you are trying to put the hot air is also low pressure and you have no constantly running fans ( the ones on the rad will be no good) - you also wont have a sealed engine compartment and air will simply recirculate.....to get it to work you will probably have two sets of fans ...some on the rad, and some expelling hot air from the engine compartment....(which you will have to seal) making this all work will be difficult I think....

really you need to achieve a straight exhasut of the hot air from your radiator - and as long as its in the engine compartment - no amount of airflow will achieve this due to the aerodynamics of the bus. My mate with the GTi engine has now used a huge rad all across the rear engine hatch...but it still just about achieves satisfactory results even with the fans running. his next step is to belly mount the rad up front and give up on this idea.

Relying on electric fans I think is a mistake but is very hard to avoid with any van radiator set up - even with the rear mounted rad I would at least consider a viscous coupled fan (if you have space) the other alternative is of course to move your radiator anywhere but in the engine bay.....in my experience and from what ive read elsewhere there are more satisfactory set ups....(check out the kooling section)

I dont mean to pi** on your fireworks but hopefully you can gain from others experimenting with engine bay mounted rads.....

on my van i have tried to make the belly mounted rad work with natural airflow and no fans....but its no secret that is taken a LOT of work.....it is as yet untested but im hoping that it will be the ultimate solution to the problem so i dont have to drive along watching the temp.

Dont take this the wrong way...i look forward to seeing how the project develops...keep up the good work.

ElusiveStranger · Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 3:37 pm Post subject:

Welcome, Speedy Hello

_________________
The advice you receive on here is worth the paper it's written on.
Your experiences are worth shed loads to others, including the f'ups - live and learn.
Wouldn't YOU rather learn by someone else's mistakes? So would they.

'78 Bay, 2 litre 091 box, EJ20 NA & the ashtray's on the 'right' side.
I don't lean forward for hills any more Grin

Bugger, missed out on "Live fast, die young"

speedy · Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 5:38 am Post subject:

I put up some new info on the web page if anyone is interested. I have nearly completed the exhaust system:

http://motorheads.net/vw/turbobus/page4.html

speedy · Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:52 am Post subject:

The bus is running! I have a few updates on the page but I am going nuts trying to finish it up and can't seem to find the time to take many pictures. :-)

-David

sven · Jedi Guardian Joined: 27 Dec 2006 Posts: 814

Congratulations to the running bus!
We've discussed the cooler position you have chosen before at this forum, and if you get problems with a raising temperature, make sure to make an air tight housing around the cooler. It should be tight around the cooler and sealed. Air will take the easiest way, not the shortest, and even the smallest gap will make uge losses in air forced through the matrix.

Regards,
Sven