Electric Power steering (EPS)

[claw_finger]

has anyone got pictures of a finnished crosa c EPS conversion on a T3
I've just bought a corsa c EPS doodar, so I'm looking for a bit of insparation to make it work

also which sensor module thing do I need to look for, I don'twant to waste £ on the wrong one

[claw_finger]

[claw_finger]

I've just had a sparkler, this might sound dumb, how complicated would it be water proof the whole electric motor set up
IIRC there's a long straight bar underneath the floor between the relay box and the rack
would it be possible to water proof the motor and fit it in under the floor
I know there is a potential heat issue
it would not have to be so pretty under the floor
no need for chopping arounf the colum it's self

worth looking into, or completly dumb idea

[rjes]

It was bought to my attention some time ago that someone in the UK has applied for a patent for a VW EPS conversion. I thought little of it at the time, as I didn't consider any aspect of what is required to retrofit EPS patentable. At the time I only went as far as finding the patent number and doing a European Patent search, which came up with nothing. Then, more recently I had reason to look into this more deeply, when the applicant told me that he 'had a patent'. On investigation I found the 'patent' is for what is effectively a copy, intentionally or otherwise, of the bay EPS installation which Rich Baker started this thread about back in 2007.

After reading the patent, three things were very interesting:
1. I saw no 'innovative step which would not be obvious to those with specialist knowledge' anywhere in the patent application documents. The diagrams basically just covers bracketry which is near identical to that detailed by Rich on page 1 of this thread, while the text seems to describe the concept of a retrofittable EPS system. I'm amazed that anyone which a knowledge of patents, such as the agent who processed this application considered it valid. I'm no expert by any means, but I do know that with no such 'innovative step', an idea is very unlikely to be considered patentable, and that only a specific method of achieving a result can be patented, not a concept.
2. The 'priority date' of the patent application is some 10 months after page one of this thread. I believe that if a single piece of 'prior art' can be proven to exist, in public before the priority date of a patent application, the application is invalidated. I am sure the detail in this thread is suitable prior art in this case.
3. Rich Baker has no knowledge of this patent application. After speaking to him about it last week, he agreed with me that the applicant appears to be effectively trying to patent what Rich had already made public here, intentionally or otherwise. I suggested registering 'third party observations', (which effectively makes the European Patent Office aware that the patent application appears to be trying to patent something which was already public knowledge). Rich didn't disagree, so I have now done so.

My interest in this comes from the fact that I also manufacture EPS retrofit conversion products, allbeit for different VW models, and have been working on them since before the patent priority date. The patent applicant claimed to have a patent (which to me implies that it has been granted), yet refused to explain to me what the patent covered, while assuring me that he wasn't going to be coming after me for violating his patent. ??????????????????
After much searching I found that he does not appear have a patent. He does a patent application which has not been granted, under a different patent number to the one quoted on his web site. The application has been bounced back and forth at least once already when reviewed, as the patent authiorities also did not consider it to contain an 'innovative step'. It's all a bit like Dragon's Den! A patent application is worthless unless it is granted.
After reading the patent for myself, considering it invalid, and disliking the answers the applicant gave me about the details it contained, I feel I have no choice. I have to register my third party observations in an attempt to prevent the application being granted to protect my own considerable investment in retrofit EPS conversion products, on the offchance that the applicant somehow does get a patent granted for the concept of a retrofittable EPS conversion.
_________________
Regards,

Richard,

R J Engineered Solutions
Quality Subaru Powered VW Components
www.rjes.com

[jp]

A patent on eps set up doesn't make sense classic rally cars have been using eps for eons.

Am I in breach for fitting my EPS in July 2008

So I guess you will be fighting it then Rich

Good luck and let us know if we can be of any assistance

[jp]

This seems to suggest he did one before Rich...

[Superleggo]

Rich

I have been involved in a number of patent applications and it is far from a science and most are worthless. They need to demonstrate what is inventive in their application and not just repackaging what has previously been done. Read the application in detail and and establish what is the inventive step. I doubt EPS in VW is inventive as EPS I guess has already been patented in its own right. There must be a claim in their application of the inventive step.

All you have to do is prove prior art of the knowledge in the public domain and the patent will be disolved. It is not diffucult to overturn.

I suggest you publish the claim on here and I guess will receive suggestions of prior art to remove this dubious claim and test it valility

[sven]

As JP says, EPS on rally cars is old news.

If an invention is published in an international publication it's considered being enough as a registered design and a patent is not possible from another party. It has been used several times by Swedish inventors that couldn't afford a patent process.

With that said, wasn't this thread created before the patent process started?..

[ElusiveStranger]

You can't patent something already in the public domain.

Show the patent clerk pages from the 'net showing retrofit eps systems prior to the application. Simples.
_________________
The advice you receive on here is worth the paper it's written on.
Your experiences are worth shed loads to others, including the f'ups - live and learn.
Wouldn't YOU rather learn by someone else's mistakes? So would they.

'78 Bay, 2 litre 091 box, EJ20 NA & the ashtray's on the 'right' side.
I don't lean forward for hills any more
Bugger, missed out on "Live fast, die young"

[ElusiveStranger]

[richbaker78]

Thanks to rjes to bringing this to my/ our attention. As the unwitting originator, I guess I should comment......
1) i can't take any credit for the idea, I simply put it in a vw camper, I don't know if I was the first but possibly I was, i certainly couldnt get much info about it back then but possibly i was the first to record it.
2) I know I'm not alone here when I say I share stuff on here to help fellow enthusiasts not for others to profit from. It really pisses me off when this happens, it makes me think twice about sharing ideas which are (I think) essential to the future of alternative engined vws. If people wish to blatantly plagiarise ideas at least have the courtesy to ask the originator and perhaps even then make your own contributions to the site for others to benefit from.

3) even if this is successful (unlikely it seems) this patent is unenforcible anyway, from my dragons den knowledge of patents I can simply drill the holes in a slightly different place to make my version unique and outside of his patent.

I'm off to file my patent for engine conversions in a vw now.....

[KARMAD]

who are these?