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MostlyMonki Jedi Master
Joined: 09 May 2007 Posts: 419 Location: Bristol
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Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:51 pm Post subject: rjes bellhousing and ej20t - what clutch parts? |
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just wondering what clutches people are using on theyre rjes conversions (particularly those of you running around 300bhp)?
ie. what pressure plates and clutch disks? |
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richbaker78 Teacher of Padawans
Joined: 31 Jan 2006 Posts: 1298
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Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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im using a std subaru clutch for now with a t25 225mm (i think) friction plate (basically the biggest vw one available). 245bhp as std in a bay - still be tested tho im afriad |
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rjes Jedi Guardian
Joined: 30 Jan 2006 Posts: 652 Location: North Staffordshire
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Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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Pressure plates first, as they are easy. Any Subaru pressure plate, which can handle the 300 bhp will fit. The closest stock one would be the 230mm one fitted to something like an RA Impreza or a a manual twin turbo Legacy. Most ad's for the Daikin / Exedy clutch kits tell you what bhp they are suitable for.
It is not economic to buy just the pressure plate and release bearing for a Subaru. Instead buy a complete kit, and sell the disc on eBay.
The only production car disc which fits properly is the 228mm VW disc from a 2.0 bay or a petrol T25. Unfortunately nobody seems to have uprated aftermarket versions available 'off the shelf. The 228mm (9") VW disk fits perfectly into all 225 or 230mm Subaru clutches (with the exception of the dual mass ones) - in fact many are actually 225 or 230 mm what you measure them, depending on th make. The big disadvantage of the 228mm VW disk is that for some reason nobody in the UK (including the clutch manufacturers distribution centres) stock the disc alone. You have to buy a complete kit. However, I keep LUK ones in stock. I have to order in bulk direct from the LUK factory in Germany in order to get just the discs. They are £45 each.
I am not aware of anybody having a VW 228mm disc fail through torque overload (eg ripping the torsional vibration damper hub to pieces). If anyone has, then I would be very interested to see the remains, and know what bhp the car was. However, beside a Subaru turbo disc the look very 'light weight'. The Subaru ones are undoubtably stronger.
The ideal solution for high BHP is to have a Subaru spec disc made with a VW centre spline. There are a few specialist motorsport clutch companies who are capable of doing this, but you'd be looking a a few hundred quid for one. Added 29/02/08 - please see the post below (Subaru splined input shafts) for an even more ideal, new solution)
Mr Doppelganger uses a clutch disc whuch is apparently for an early Porsche (please correct me if I'm wrong....), but it's spec is a bit of a mystery to me. I've never been able to find any info on a Porsche disc with a diameter of 225 - 230mm and a 24 tooth spline. The only ones listed by suppliers such as Sachs and LUK with a 24 tooth spline are 215mm diameter, from the very earliest 911's. I have quite a few clutch catalogues and have been through every page of them looking for other suitable discs from other cars. I have asked DG about his disc, but I don't think he knows what model it is from?? I have seen it, but didn't think to measure it. It's metallic, and I suspect it may be some kind of aftermarket part for an upgrade in which you use a later engine (with a bigger diameter disc) on an earlier gearbox, with the 24 tooth spline.
If you get into custom made discs, then you could also go for the 240mm Subaru turbo clutch (as fitted to the STi 6 -->), which requires a unique flywheel. These look massive! _________________ Regards,
Richard,
R J Engineered Solutions
Quality Subaru Powered VW Components
www.rjes.com
Last edited by rjes on Fri Feb 29, 2008 10:36 am; edited 1 time in total |
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doppelganger Jedi Guardian
Joined: 09 Feb 2006 Posts: 778 Location: newmarket
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Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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the only things i know about my now broken friction plate is what ive been told,that its from an early 911 2.2 ltr .when i take it out over xmas ill get it to you richard and maybe there are part numbers on it ? _________________ vwdrc class rep
vwdrc AE bugjam winner
11.23@127mph. 1.47 60ft. 2.85sec 0-60mph |
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rjes Jedi Guardian
Joined: 30 Jan 2006 Posts: 652 Location: North Staffordshire
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Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 1:20 am Post subject: |
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Cheers - that'd be interesting. It's six puck metallic if I remember right? _________________ Regards,
Richard,
R J Engineered Solutions
Quality Subaru Powered VW Components
www.rjes.com |
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doppelganger Jedi Guardian
Joined: 09 Feb 2006 Posts: 778 Location: newmarket
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Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:39 am Post subject: |
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4 puck _________________ vwdrc class rep
vwdrc AE bugjam winner
11.23@127mph. 1.47 60ft. 2.85sec 0-60mph |
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rjes Jedi Guardian
Joined: 30 Jan 2006 Posts: 652 Location: North Staffordshire
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Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 10:45 am Post subject: Subaru splined input shafts |
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The ultimate solution for clutches in high bhp applications has to be to use the complete Subaru clutch kit, including the disc. This opens up the world of aftermarket Subaru clutches, which are available to handle over 800 bhp. However, it's unlikely that a VW gearbox can be uprated to handle that power! More usefully though, the 240mm six speed STi clutch will bolt straight in, as will the uprated 230mm kits with metallic discs. These are likely to be the kind of clutches people want for 300 bhp.
When developing the bell housings, I rules out getting new input shafts made with a Subaru spline, mainly because it would be too expensive. However, a lot of people using big bhp engines has shown that getting some shafts made is worthwhile as an optional upgrade to the bell housing kit.
I have just ordered 10 such shafts. They'll be made from top spec steel, and heat treated after machining. I don't have any availability or price info yet, but will post a reply on here when I do. _________________ Regards,
Richard,
R J Engineered Solutions
Quality Subaru Powered VW Components
www.rjes.com |
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rusty69bus Jedi Master
Joined: 24 Apr 2006 Posts: 467 Location: essex
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Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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didn't splittyman mention using a vauxhall clutch disc? _________________
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rjes Jedi Guardian
Joined: 30 Jan 2006 Posts: 652 Location: North Staffordshire
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Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 2:12 am Post subject: |
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The Vauxhall theory probably originated with me. There is a disc which has the right diameter and spline, but some of it's other dimensions are not ideal. As far as I know, nobody has actually used one. _________________ Regards,
Richard,
R J Engineered Solutions
Quality Subaru Powered VW Components
www.rjes.com |
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